I did hear that his religious convictions were under a cloud, but I take it he was buried according to Watchtower custom, whatever that means.
moggy lover
JoinedPosts by moggy lover
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7
Michael Jackson planned to convert to Islam, according to his brother Jermaine.
by Dogpatch inby philippa bourke author end jan 22, 2010, 3:20 gmt.
michael jackson planned to convert to islam, according to his brother jermaine.. jermaine alleges the late king of pop, 50, was close to converting shortly before he died suddenly last june.. jermaine himself converted to islam in 1989 after being raised with his siblings as a jehovah's witness.. michael was in the process of studying islam and was moved by its teachings when he spent a year living in the bahrain region, jackson said.. he said: 'i believe that islam would have helped him a lot.
had he converted, he would have been spared all the problems he had been subjected to throughout his life.'.
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moggy lover
It needs to be remembered by non Aussies that the expression "High Court" [capital "H" capital "C"] is the equivalent of the US "Supreme Court".
Before Australia became federated as one nation on Jan 26, 1901, it was a loose collection of six states, independant of each other, with each having its own "Supreme Court" as is current today. When federation came into being it was suggested that calling the highest court of appeal in the land "The SupremeCourt" would cause confusion, since there were six of these. Thus the name "High Court" was adopted as a replacement.
Therefore any decision made by the Australian High Court would have national authority, although, as in this instance, local considerations were being considered.
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WHY 12 tribes in Rev don't match original 12 tribes, accidentally ran into the answer.
by EndofMysteries inbefore i go further, has anyone researched or ever found an explanation?
i am into other topics now but fell upon some actual reasons.
i believe the wt just says it's symbolic and since it's not the same 12 as originally, that it proves it's symbolic.
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moggy lover
Evidently not, TD.
The tribe of Dan suffered the same fate as the other Northern tribes when they were defeated and deported by Tiglat-pileser in 732 BC. A remnant did survive and made its way south, but by the 1C AD had been complertely absorbed by the tribe of Judah.
An early Church Father of the early 2C AD, Irenaeus had a somewhat eccentric view for why Dan was omitted from the tribal count in Rev 7. Basing his argument on the LXX text of Jer 8:16 "From Dan shall we hear the noise of his swift horses", he concluded that the future Antichrist was to come from the tribe Dan!
[Quoted from "Against Heresies" Book 5, Chap 30 verse 2, as found in the New Bible Dictionary, page 289]
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The president sit in with the G/B?
by Aussie Oz inthis is made as a reply to a facebook question (not by me) as to why the current president is not of the anointed:.
why is your new president not anonted even tho the watchtower says all presidents should be announted ???
as for the current watchtower presendent; you see back when bro.
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moggy lover
It appears that the position of "President" of the WBTS has been demoted to being simply one of symbolic ceremonial and titular importance. Its administrative authority has been castrated, divorcing it from from any real functional responsibility within the wider body politic of the Watchtower system. Once all-powerful, and capable of bestowing patronage on others, the man in that position now takes orders from the Chairman of the GB.
That is the REAL position of power in the Watchtower system today.
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Photo of GB 2006
by Titus inplease, compare this photo with the gb photo in the book "bear thorough witness".
gb2006.
isn't that the same photo?.
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moggy lover
WOW!
If it IS the same foto then this will remind us old timers of the bad ole Cold War days when the commies used to erase perons who had no more relevance to the movement. You would see the Official Foto, in which we glimpse this sea of GB [oops, I mean Politburo] faces standing at some interminable parade or other, and then, when someone becomes an "unperson" the official foto is doctored to exclude the poor sap.
Since getting all of these guys together at any one gathering is like herding cats, they would never have had the patience to sit through two foto opportunities, wearing the same gear, and smiling the same smiles, the powers that be must have decided to do some "unpersoning" of their own.
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Feb. 15, 2010 WT 'The Spirit and the Bride'
by sd-7 infebruary 15, 2010 wt: the spirit and the bride keep on saying "come!".
paragraph 7: "the members of the bride class--the spirit-anointed christians--are the first to extend the invitation to come.
well, the bride is not saying "come!
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moggy lover
Good post, and well researched, sd7. One wonders if the guys who write this bunk actually believe what they write.
The exposition presented in that Wt study article, taken from Rev 22:17 is without doubt one of the worst explanations of this portion of Scripture that it has been my misfortune to read, and I have read some doozies, believe me.
The "translators" of the NW "T" were, according to the foreword of the original edition of the NW"T", especially conscious of "rendering" the various Greek verbs in the Sacred Text according to their grammatical syntax. If this is true, then the expositors who attempt to interpret what the NW"T" are certainly unaware of this need.
The verb "say" in Rev 22:17 is the plural, thus "The Spirit + the Bride SAY...." This means that two groups of persons are actually articulating the words that follow. According to the text these two groups are: 1 The Spirit + 2 The Bride. The real order must be kept in mind. It is the Spirit who is in control, not the Bride. Thus it is the Spirit, along with the Bride who throw out the invitation to everlasting life.
But in the exposition, so kindly provided by these writers of the Watchtower, only one group is doing the talking, the secondary one at that, the Bride.
First these writers reverse the order: The Bride + The Spirit SAY, then they make the verb singular: The Bride THROUGH the spirit SAYS
Then they have the gall to ask a thoroughly unnecessary question: "How does this deity of theirs, "jehoober" USE the holy spirit? Evidently this god uses this spirit to "open the hearts and minds of this "bride class" to understand his word.
Thus they would like the rank and file followers of the Watchtower to read this text as if it says: "The Bride class, having its collective mind and heart opened by the spirit says:....." thus the invitation to everlasting life, and its consequences, are an exclusive prerogative of this "bride class"
A greater degree of arrogance is hardly capable of being imagined.
But then one can hardly expect anything better from writer[s] who can't tell an indicative from a subjunctive. Anyone who can so casually misread "Will" for "may" as in "Millions now living MAY never die" is suspect.
And you are quite right, and this is something I missed. The invitation "since 1918" was only to life in heaven, if the writers wanted to get their facts right, they should have said that this invitation to life on earth forevever has been in operation only from 1936.
Therefore, it appears that, prior to 1936, no fulfillment of Rev 22:17 was in operation, this despite all the efforts of Russell and his generation. Russell might as well have continued selling mens jocks and socks, since he was of no theological use.
Pity that such nonsense could be taken so seriously by so many for so long.
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I want to get myself a good bible lexicon...
by quietlyleaving in.. with the many gift vouchers i've received.
i have a vague memory that narkissos mentioned a couple recently.
i have not been able to find the post.
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moggy lover
It depends on how much you are willing to spend.
The best of the NT Greek Lexicons that you can get in a single volume is the "Bauer-Danker-Arnt-Gingrich Lexicon of the Greek NT and Early Christian Literature" [BDAG for short]. It is comprehensive, authoratative, and has all the hallmarks of expert scholarly opinion. It is also fairly expensive and, running into 900 double column pages, it comprises some half a million words of text. So it is a hefty tome.
Even more comprehensive but in two substantially large volumes is the Liddell and Scott Greek-English lexicon. It is in fact so vast in scope that its effectiveness for a NT Greek investigator becomes blunted. It incorporates much information on Greek words that are not relevant to NT Studies. You might be better advised to google "Liddell and Scott" on the web, where it has graciously been made available by a programme called Persius, so you will be able to read it online whenever you require.
Also in a multi volume edition is the "Exegetical Dictionary Of the NT" by Baltz and Schneider. It is published by Eerdmans of Grand Rapids, Michigan in an English translation. It is not as expensive but still will not be in the midium price range.
Single volume lexicons that are available and which are more accessible include: Abbott-Smith's NT Greek Lexicon, Thayer's NT Greek Lexicon, the single volume " New International Dictionary of NT Theology"* and the single volume "Theological Dictionary of the NT"** by Gerhardt Kittel.
Less expensive but probably better for the beginner in NT Greek are several English Dictionaries/Lexicons of the Greek NT. These include "Strong's" Lexicon which has recently been published in an expanded edition, which incorporates many amplified notes on several Greek NT words. When you go into your local Christian bookstore ask for: "Strongs Expanded Dictionary of Bible Words" It was published by Thomas Nelson in 2001.
Vine's is a standard and should be on every shelf of the Greek NT student. But just as good and, being more up-to-date, probably even better, are: "Renn's Expository Dictionary of Bible Words" and Mounce's "Complete Dictionary of NT Words". Zondervan Books has published a moderately priced dictionary of Bible words, called "The Encyclopedia of Bible Words". It was however published in 1991 and may be harder to secure.
Actually Zondervan's have published three separate NT Interlinears that have parallel texts such as KJV/NASB, NIV/KJV, and the NASV/NIV. The beauty of these are that they have, at the back, a substantial lexicon detailing every Greek word in the NT text.
Similar to this is "The Word Study Greek-English NT" by Prof Paul McReynolds. McReynolds is professor of NT Greek at Pacific Christian College in Fullerton, Ca, and he has arranged the text in such a way that it has: 1 A literal translation of each Greek word,
2 A coded number that corresponds to Strong's numerical system,
3 A comprehensive lexicon that explains the nuances of the word in a given context, 4 An amazingly comprehensive concordance that lists every single occurence of the word in the NT,
4 A coded reference that enables the student to tap into more comprehensive works such as BADG, Kittel and others. If one has any of these books, navigating through them could be a daunting task, so McReynolds certainly helps here.
AMG Publishers have released several comprehensive English/Greek lexicons which are the best buy for their comprehensiveness. "The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the NT" edited by Prof Spiros Zodhiates is worth its weight in gold, as are the other companion volumes, "The Word Study OT" and "The Word Study NT"
The world of Greek NT studies is expanding exponentially and probably as I speak some of the works I mentioned may have become obsolete, to be replaced by others!! [Just kidding] But the market is huge, and you would need to spend some time browsing in a Christian Bookstore near you.
As far as the OT is concerned the three standard works that I can reccomend are: Gersenius' Hebrew Lexicon, The Brown Driver Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon***, and the "Teological Wordbook of the OT" Harris, Archer and Waltke. This a convenient one volume edition of their larger work which was originally published in 4 volumes. This larger work is, unfortunately for copyright reasons, not available in Australia, so I cannot comment on the printed edition. However, the CD Rom version of the whole work is available through Pradis Software at a moderate price.
Hope this helps
*This work was originally published as a three volume set, but the Abridged edition is availabe in a single volume edition and is designed for the beginner. It is published by Zondervan Books.
** This work originally came out in a large 12 volume set, but is now available in a single volume edition. Again, for copyright reasons this is not available in Aussie, but if you live in the USA, it is not difficult to get.
*** The BDB Hebrew Lexicon is substantially a revision of Gesenius, and it incorporates newer information that has come to light.
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Re Gabriel's answer at Daniel 9
by Doug Mason indaniel 9:24-27 records the answer to daniels prayer by angel gabriel.
interpretations of these verses have resulted in a wide range of interpretations.. .
my suggestions are intended to provide parameters that may assist when an attempt is made to unearth the meaning of gabriels answer.. .
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moggy lover
Nice work, Doug.
You have a PM.
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Lack of connection to apostolic church
by greendawn inthe jws claim they are the true christian religion even though they only appeared suddenly and very recently.
but what is it that connects them with the early apostolic church so as to make it possible for them to claim they are its successors?.
indeed if we check out their history we see that their immediate predecessors and teachers the adventists were rejected by them as a false religion, they believed in hellfire and the immortality of the soul.
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moggy lover
The connection is nonexistent. It is made up material that is part conjecture and part interpretive humbug.
They first start with the absolutely unprovable proposition that the 1C AD Church taught, among other things:
1 That the Christian god was expressly referred to as "Jehovah"
2 That the message of the 1C AD Church was that of the Kingdom of God through "Jehovah's sovereignty", and not that of salvation in the name of Christ.
3 That the method of evangelism carried out by the 1C AD Church was that of a universal obligation on all believers, and by a door-to-door ministry.
4 That only 144,000 were to be with Christ in heaven.
5 That the 1C AD Christian Church was constituted along hierarchical/dictatorial lines with an anonymous GB in charge and with a coterie of compliant satraps carrying out the orders of these morons at the top.
6 That total subservience to this GB was of "first importance" and that Paul was mistaken when he said that of "first importance" was belief in the substitutional nature of Christ's death for sins, and His subsequent resurrection. [1 Cor 15:3]
Having established such improbable items that supposedly "identify" the 1C AD Christian Church, they then blissfully, and with their tongues in their cheeks, turn to their declining membership and quote: Who then resembles this 1C AD Church today?
The RCs? Nah. The Baptists? Nah. The Lutherans? Nah? Evangelicals in general? Nah.
Ipso facto, then, by default, it must, in all modesty and humility [sic] be us!!!! [Simple ain't it]
We can't help being right all the time. Even when we're wrong, we reserve the right to be right!
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I want to buy my first book about the WT what should I get?
by bohm ini have already read c.o.c.
and im not really interested in more about the doctrines.. i have read about the book "taking back your life", and mr. bohm has been pestering me about reading the book "releasing the bonds" by steven hassan.. which other books would you recommend?.
love, miss bohm.
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moggy lover
Hi, Greenie:
There are several examples that I can give which Penton brings out throughout his book. But I will start with CT Russell, the Watchtower founder. A carefully crafted myth among the Watchtower leadership, and percolating down to the rank and file followers, is that Russell was led by "god" to rediscover the original "truths" of 1 C AD Christianity. Penton points out that all of CTR's teachings, and certainly most of his more important ones, such as 1874, the yearly celebration of the Lord's Supper, and others, actually came from other men he associated with, such as Nelson Barbour, George Storrs, and George Stetson.
On page 17 of the book Penton says: "The practice of celebrating the Memorial of the Lord's Supper once a year on the supposed date of the Passover was learned by Russell from George Storrs. This custom began among members of Storrs' church The Life And Advent Union in the 1860s". Therefore it was not as a result of a careful study of the Bible, but as a result of a precedent established by someone else, that the Watchtower began this observance.
Other teachings of Russell, attributed to divine intervention, such as the "Parousia" of Christ being an "invisible presence" are also examined. This Russell got from Barbour, and Russell continued in this absurdity, even after Barbour himself repudiated this when he realized how silly this was.
Another carefully crafted myth regarding CTR is that the two major schisms that fell upon his movement were the result of "satanic attacks" in an attempt to derail the infant Watchtower movement. Actually, Penton points out that this had a far more terrestial source. As CTR's theology was evolving, he began to construct doctrines that many found bizarre. One was that the words " The Christ" [as opposed to simply "Christ"] referred to the wider body of "anointed" followers of Russell. Many refused such an explanation and left the movement in 1878 and 1881, because they realized that what CTR was teaching was that the "anointed" actually participated in the redemption of mankind.
Later Russell also stubbornly insisted on a version of the New Covenent that became controversial. Several prominent followers felt that CTR was secretly trying to smuggle in non biblical teachings into the movement, and failing to reason with him, left. So, far from being devilish in origin, much of Russell's ealy troubles were of his own making.